Beyond Chemical Imbalance: New Frontiers in Psychiatry with Dr. Theodore Henderson - #37

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Welcome back to the

Neurostimulation podcast.

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Today I'm joined by Dr.

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Theodore Henderson, a trailblazing

psychiatrist, and neuroscientist whose

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work is redefining how we understand

and treat brain disorders from

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depression to traumatic brain injury,

long COVID to chronic fatigue syndrome.

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Dr.

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Henderson has pioneered approaches

that challenge the outdated

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chemical imbalance model.

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His new book Brighter Days Ahead

offers hope grounded in neuroimaging,

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infrared light therapy, and ketamine.

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In this episode, we're gonna

dive into revolutionary

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treatments, neurobiology, and Dr.

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Henderson's own personal story

that fuels his mission to

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change lives and change minds.

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Dr.

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Henderson, thanks for joining us today.

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Thank you for having me, Michael.

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So maybe we can start

with the big picture.

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I was wondering perhaps you can introduce

yourself to the audience a little, tell

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us about your background and then maybe

help us to understand how do you see the

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field of psychiatry evolving away from the

legacy chemical imbalance type of model?

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All right.

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Yeah.

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I, I think a childhood of adversity taught

me to be suspicious of the status quo.

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And then I read Thomas Kuhn's

The Structure of Scientific

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Revolutions in college.

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It literally became my Bible.

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And so every situation, every paradigm

I looked at, I was suspicious of,

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and I questioned and I challenged it.

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That served me well as a graduate

student and getting my PhD and served

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me relatively well as a medical

student, although, the hierarchy

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of medicine expects you to be the

obedient servant in in residency.

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The, so I, I took all my

background in neurobiology and

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went into radiology initially.

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And spent about a year and a half

before I just couldn't stand it

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anymore and switched to psychiatry

and never regretted that switch.

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I think psychiatry allows me to really

make a difference in the world and really

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help people, which is always been my goal.

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The neuroimaging came back though

because I got involved in SPECT brain

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imaging which is a functional brain

scan that shows you what's working

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and what's not working in the brain.

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And in that role I kept having to

tell people, look, the scan shows

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you have a traumatic brain injury.

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We've got nothing to help you.

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Sorry, have a nice life.

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That was very frustrating to me

as a clinician and as a person.

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So when the opportunity came to get

involved in photobiomodulation, I

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leaped at the chance, but the very

first thing I did was say, okay, we

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gotta make this rigorously scientific.

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And that's how I arrived at this point of

using photobiomodulation that is infrared

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light as a treatment for the brain.

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And thinking about all, neurological

and psychiatric disorders is

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really being about insufficient

neuroplasticity and insufficient

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mitochondrial and neuronal health.

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That's probably enough.

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Oh yeah.

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No, I think that's a fantastic

introduction and it's so interesting

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because I think we're at an exciting

time now in the field because of, as

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you say, many different multimodal

kinds of approaches to management

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are almost by definition having to

become more available for people.

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Other reasons because legacy treatments,

particularly medications, are just

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disappointing for so many people.

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And other kinds of

options are sorely needed.

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Yeah, I'm, I'm curious.

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I think it's really interesting to hear

and perhaps, we can spend quite a bit

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of time talking about those particular.

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Kind of technologies and treatments

that you've just referred to, but I was

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also interested in what you've written

about and have content on in terms of

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depression and associated conditions,

like perhaps chronic fatigue syndrome

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as neuroinflammatory conditions.

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Perhaps maybe you could help

us to understand your thoughts

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around that kind of thing as well.

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Yeah.

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That's a really interesting story.

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Thank you for asking about that.

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It, that really again, came

from this work in neuroimaging.

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I have patients who are coming and

saying, they think they had a stroke.

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And a stroke looks very

characteristic on a brain scan.

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It's a.

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The vascular territory of the

involved artery is shut down,

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and I wasn't seeing that at all.

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In fact, what I was seeing was diffuse,

patchy dysfunction throughout the

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entire brain, and that raises a question

of, okay, this is something systemic.

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This is' localized.

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This is involving the whole brain.

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In fact, probably the whole body.

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So that led me to ask

the patients questions.

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And what came out was a a downward

trajectory of more and more fatigue and

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brain fog and concentration problems

and memory problems and errors at work.

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And that very much sounded

like chronic fatigue syndrome.

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Now, I had.

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I already had some brushes with

the interaction of certain viruses,

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in particular Epstein-Barr virus,

which is herpes four and herpes six

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with which is just called herpes

six in brain dysfunction in areas

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of autism and things like that.

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In my neuroimaging work.

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So as a clinician, then I started

researching what was out there

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and discovered a Martin Lerner's

pioneering work on treating chronic

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fatigue syndrome with antivirals

directed against those herpes viruses.

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So I started treating patients,

and here's the weird thing, not

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only did they, recover from the

fatigue and the brain fog, but

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their anxiety disorders went away.

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I started having patients who came

in with, saying, I'm depressed, doc.

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And okay what makes you

think you're depressed?

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I'm tired all the time.

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Oh, okay.

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So they had been diagnosed as

depression and put on SSRIs when

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in fact they had a viral infection.

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So I started curing depression by

treating them with an antiviral.

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So that sort of.

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Shift opened my eyes to, not

being stuck in a paradigm.

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If they say they're depressed or

somebody's told them they're depressed,

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maybe you need to ask more questions.

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And the fascinating thing is, I'm

now treated, four or 500 patients for

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chronic fatigue syndrome, and all sorts

of interesting things have happened.

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Their seizure disorders have gone away.

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That one always blows

away, neurologists away.

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I have patients who were diagnosed with

Parkinson's disease and after treating

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them their Parkinson's symptoms went away.

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And literally they go back

to the neurologist and the

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neurologist says I guess you

didn't have Parkinson's after all.

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So it's been remarkable to see, the

number of different disorders by symptom

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phenotype that turn out to actually

be the results of viral infections.

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Alzheimer's, again is a

great example of this.

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We could spend an hour

talking about Alzheimer's.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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In particular with some recent

evidence that's really casting doubt

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on a lot of the underlying concepts

around pathophysiology of Alzheimer's.

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But I think just the fact that you

mentioned coon's structure of scientific

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revolutions at the beginning is really

interesting because I think part of

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what many psychiatrists struggle with,

particularly, mid or later career

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psychiatrist, is, working in the system

and becoming frustrated with, and

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maybe having some more insight into

how, the pharmac industrial regulatory

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kind of capture is part of what kind

of guides, training and then guides

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early practice and you feel a bit.

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Because clinical practice guidelines

are also part of, in a way, part of

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that capture and then what your peers

are doing is part of that capture.

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And you feel like if you want to

maybe explore ideas that are out of

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the box there's so many different

barriers that get in the way of that,

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and that the root of least resistance

is just to go along to get along.

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And that ends up causing

patients to, be on four or five.

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Different psychotropic medications at

the end of the day because, and they

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don't have, it's really sad in many

cases because they just don't have

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the opportunity to see someone like

you who thinks out of the box and

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might diagnose them with more of an

inflammatory condition that could in

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fact be curative as you're describing.

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Yeah.

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So it's very much that, that

paradigm and the chemical imbalance

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theory, that depression is about

serotonin that's been disproven.

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Four meta-analyses.

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The latest was published about two

years ago that prove that serotonin

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has nothing to do with mood.

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The fact that Prozac increases

serotonin, which it does in about

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an hour is a happy accident.

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Prozac really does as an antidepressant

is very poorly, very weekly.

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If you're lucky and Saturn happens to

be in retrograde and Capricorn, that you

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will get an antidepressant benefit because

it very weekly turns on neuroplasticity.

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Yeah, that's interesting.

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And then you add in factors like placebo

or expectation effects, and then, those

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more recent comparison meta-analyses and

RCTs are showing that often they don't

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separate out much from placebo effects.

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So there you go.

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Yes, exactly.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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So maybe I'm interested then, so could

you help us understand a bit about

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different technologies that people may not

be familiar with that could potentially

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help with conditions like depression?

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In particular, I'm wondering

about this infrared laser therapy,

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which sounds very interesting.

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Yes.

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So the infrared photobiomodulation story

goes back actually to the Soviet Union.

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So that's about 50 years ago.

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NASA played around with it for a

little bit and found that they could

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speed the wound healing of astronauts.

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So the astronauts had an infrared

device up on their vehicles,

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I guess is the best word.

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But Harvard and a few other places,

uniform Services Hospital, and university

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of Sydney really got invested in

understanding photobiomodulation.

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So really key work came out of

Harvard that showed that if you in,

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take a hundred mice, whack-a-mole in

the head with a machine that gives

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'em all the same traumatic brain

injury, treat 50 with infrared light.

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Those 50 that were treated get better.

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The lesion is smaller in the brain.

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There's evidence that BDNF brain

derived neurotrophic factors turned on.

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This is the driver of

neuroplasticity in the adult brain.

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And so there's evidence of increased

synapses, increased dendrites, and

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those little mice that had a brain

injury or up running around, like

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nothing ever happened to them.

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So that pioneering work and the same

kind of work was done in stroke.

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Showed that infrared light turns

on a system and that system

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involves first the mitochondria.

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So certain wavelengths of infrared

light, if it can get through the

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scalp and skull and reach the brain

cell, activates the mitochondria.

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I could go into all the science of

that, but let's just leave it at that.

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The mitochondria in turn produce

more energy, but they also send

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signals down to the chromosomes

saying, turn on these genes.

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And so one of those genes is brain derived

neurotrophic factor, but there are several

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growth factors turned on depending on the

cell type as well as anti-inflammatory.

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Factors.

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So the infrared light is

actually activating brain cell

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repair and neuroplasticity.

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Now the problem is that the

skull of a mouse is about the

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thickness of six sheets of paper.

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So a half watt LED can

shine infrared light.

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Through that, we have much thicker skulls,

mine, thicker than most, and then our

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scalp is a good six millimeters thick.

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And a half lot LED doesn't even penetrate

one millimeter through human skin.

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So an LED is not gonna get

through the scalp and it and the

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skull and get into the brain.

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That's the problem with all these

LED devices that you can buy.

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You can go and spend $4,000, or you

can spend $27 on Amazon and get an

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LED infrared light device that you

can stick on your head and pretend

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that you're treating your brain.

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And I say pretend 'cause it's not

getting through the scalp and skull.

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Now there is a skin effect.

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Something in the skin gets activated,

which has benefit to the entire body.

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Treating the skin will speed,

wound healing throughout the body

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helps the brain a little bit.

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But the problem is, it's transient.

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If you don't keep doing those LED

treatments every day, as soon as

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you stop, the benefit goes away.

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Now contrast that with what we do.

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We went into the lab and figured out how

to get through the scalp and skull and

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three centimeters into the brain safely,

and deliver the right amount of energy to

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those neurons to turn on the mitochondria.

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That took us about a year and a half in

the research lab involving sheep heads,

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cadaver heads, living tissue, to sort

out those penetration parameters, and we

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applied those parameters then to people.

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And we have the, we first were treating

traumatic brain injury, so we had brain

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scans on them before and after treatment.

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And the changes were dramatic and not

only what you could see on the scan,

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but in these people's lives, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's amazing.

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It's really, yeah.

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Very interesting.

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And this idea about the

neuroplasticity in the BDNF.

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Induced therapeutic changes.

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It's really interesting how there's

a confluence that seems to be

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a unifying factor that's common

to the infrared laser therapy.

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The ketamine, as you say, to a small

extent, SSRIs, maybe can you help

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us understand, for example, like

with ketamine then as another option

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to improve neuroplasticity and how

that seems to really correlate.

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Not only correlate, but cause

improvements in conditions like

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the depression and chronic fatigue.

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Yeah.

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Great question.

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Thank you.

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So ketamine activates BDNF by a separate

mechanism and it does very powerful

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and through a series of molecular

steps, it actually turns on both

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ketamine and the receptor for ketamine.

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So there's more stuff and

more receptors for the stuff.

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So that.

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Boost neuroplasticity.

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Now, one of the things that I

recognized pretty early on was

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what if we put the two together?

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Infrared light turns on BDNF by

a mitochondrial mechanism, and

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ketamine turns it on by a different

mechanism through the NMDA receptor.

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And in fact, you get synergy, you get

one plus one equals three, not two.

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And in fact, we patented that.

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Synergistic combination and in

doing that work, for example,

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I'll just give you one example.

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It's impossible to do the study where

treat someone with infrared light.

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You go back in time, you treat them

with ketamine, you go back in time,

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and then you treat them with both and

see, which you can't do that right

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time machines only have one chair.

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The.

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Best analogy I can give you is that,

some of the patients that we treat

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with both ketamine and infrared

light, their brain scan showed really

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robust improvement in brain functions.

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Our depression patients who were

severely depressed, and we combine

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ketamine with infrared light therapy.

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Just, I had a psychiatrist call

me up and said, what the blankety

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blanket did you do to this lady?

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She looks fantastic.

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So it's a very robust change.

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There are other modalities that

may have that same synergy.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I think before we

started, you have mentioned.

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Neuromodulation techniques, like the

transcranial magnetic stimulation.

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And so I guess that would be an example

of some of those other technologies

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yet that I suppose could continue

to act even more synergistically.

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And it's interesting.

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Because it strikes me that what

we're talking about really leads

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to discussion as to how all of this

is creating a sorely needed kind of

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environment where there's more of a

personalized approach to improving.

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Mental health as opposed to the cookbook

approach that is, like I said before, has

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disappointed so many people for so long.

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That's a great point.

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That's a great point.

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Yeah.

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The neuroimaging work that I've done

using functional brain scans or spec

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scans it's been frustrating because

number one, science, psychiatry, and

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neurologist just completely rejects.

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SPEC scans.

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It's been a fight and I actually wrote an

article with Dan Pave about two years ago

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called The Legacy of the TAs and Report.

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And the Tasman report was Neurology's

initial assessment of spec scans

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25 years ago in which they said

all these things are useless.

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The spec scans of 25 years

ago look like a RAR shock.

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They look like an ink block.

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They didn't look like a brain scan.

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And now we have brain scans.

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I can see details, I can see the

Klaus Strumm, I can see the putamen.

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I can see the, all the little brain

structures I can see in a spec scan now

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with the quality scans that we have.

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And so you would think we'd be using

those in psychiatry because it helps

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us to craft our treatment better.

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No, not at all.

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No.

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Yeah, it's unfortunate, and I mean

it, I hate to sound conspiratorial,

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but one, one, there's really hardly

any other conclusions when you

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think about things like, why are

there such a dearth of biomarker

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driven diagnostics in psychiatry?

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Even something as.

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As traditional, or some might say outdated

as the dexamethasone suppression test.

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I remember mentors when I was in

training who were very smart people

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who said that actually the DST

is quite a reasonable biomarker

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diagnostic to add into the mix with.

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: 00:18:42

Any kind of clinical diagnosis of a major

depressive episode, yet we don't use it.

324

: 00:18:48

And I think, I wonder if a lot of that

is just because again that there's

325

: 00:18:51

capture of the journals with the

pharmacoeconomic complex and the drug

326

: 00:18:55

companies aren't really interested

in having tests available that might

327

: 00:18:59

rule out depression and decrease

their, the number of people that might

328

: 00:19:03

be candidates for the treatments.

329

: 00:19:05

Yeah.

330

: 00:19:05

And bipolar one most often presents

initially with a depressive episode,

331

: 00:19:11

and the dexamethasone suppression test

would differentiate bipolar one from.

332

: 00:19:17

Major depressive disorder from unipolar

depression and prevent, maybe ever a

333

: 00:19:22

manic episode or you start treating

the bipolar disorder appropriately.

334

: 00:19:26

Same thing with brain spec scans.

335

: 00:19:27

About three years ago I published

with colleagues in Mary McClain and

336

: 00:19:32

a few others in Canada a series A,

a family who have bipolar disorder,

337

: 00:19:38

and they all got variant spec scans

and their brains are identical.

338

: 00:19:43

Absolutely identical.

339

: 00:19:44

They all have the same bipolar marker

features of increased asymmetrical

340

: 00:19:49

thalamic activity and asymmetrical,

increased cortical activity.

341

: 00:19:54

If we did a spec scan on unipolar

depression, then yeah, we would

342

: 00:19:58

pick up those bipolar cases before

they became, severely manic.

343

: 00:20:02

And, the savings in, the

economics just for the.

344

: 00:20:06

For the patient, not losing their

job with a manic episode, having

345

: 00:20:11

a worse course because they were

put on an antidepressant initially.

346

: 00:20:15

All of those things could be

prevented if we use biomarkers.

347

: 00:20:19

Yeah.

348

: 00:20:19

And spec is relatively available.

349

: 00:20:22

Even up here in Canada where, we have our

default I'm a little bit embarrassed to

350

: 00:20:27

say, our default for neuroimaging in on

the geriatric side where I'm spending most

351

: 00:20:31

of my time is still cranial CT scanning.

352

: 00:20:34

So even in our environment,

SPECT is relatively available.

353

: 00:20:39

And as again, in the geriatric

population to help differentiate.

354

: 00:20:43

Certain kinds of dementias, it

can be obviously quite helpful.

355

: 00:20:46

But we don't really think, I don't have

a large, younger or middle age adult

356

: 00:20:51

practice, but I think with colleagues,

I don't think many of them would ever

357

: 00:20:53

think about ordering a spec scan, but I

can see why there would be a lot of value

358

: 00:20:57

in that on the diagnostic side for sure.

359

: 00:21:00

Yeah.

360

: 00:21:00

Yeah.

361

: 00:21:01

And we could talk about Alzheimer's

and the Alzheimer's imaging

362

: 00:21:05

and, spective is more valuable

than say even a amyloid scan.

363

: 00:21:11

So again, you're right.

364

: 00:21:14

That's this engine that drives

things and nuclear medicine and

365

: 00:21:17

radiologists wanna do amyloid scans.

366

: 00:21:21

Yeah.

367

: 00:21:21

Yeah, it's interesting.

368

: 00:21:22

And I think, yeah, even more

interesting because of all the recent

369

: 00:21:26

concern that's coming out regarding

the potential that the whole amyloid

370

: 00:21:30

hypothesis for Alzheimer's might be.

371

: 00:21:33

Somewhat or perhaps

completely off the mark.

372

: 00:21:36

So what does that mean

for the whole approach?

373

: 00:21:38

Yeah, it's really interesting.

374

: 00:21:40

How about the long COVID syndrome?

375

: 00:21:42

Everyone you know is still concerned

about the legacy of COVID, obviously.

376

: 00:21:47

It was a huge, a very

impactful time for everyone.

377

: 00:21:49

Very disruptive for all kinds

of reasons and many folks are

378

: 00:21:52

left with this long COVID.

379

: 00:21:54

So I really don't know too much about

it, but it strikes me as interesting

380

: 00:21:57

in terms of the potential overlap with.

381

: 00:22:00

Something like chronic fatigue syndrome

and the neuroinflammatory component.

382

: 00:22:05

Do you mind helping us to understand

a little bit more about your work with

383

: 00:22:08

long COVID patients and how that ties

in with what we've been talking about?

384

: 00:22:13

I'd be happy to.

385

: 00:22:14

I just gave a presentation at the

World Brain Mapping Conference

386

: 00:22:17

in Los Angeles a few months ago,

and so this is fresh in my head.

387

: 00:22:21

The estimates are that about

30% of people who got COVID will

388

: 00:22:25

develop long COVID symptoms.

389

: 00:22:27

And long COVID symptoms are

fatigue, brain fog memory problems,

390

: 00:22:33

sometimes neurological symptoms

like ticks or tremors and also

391

: 00:22:38

gastrointestinal symptoms.

392

: 00:22:40

And then a lot of patients will

have persistent pulmonary symptoms,

393

: 00:22:43

shortness of breath, et cetera.

394

: 00:22:46

The theory is about COVID along

COVID, excuse me, are that number

395

: 00:22:51

one, maybe there's fragments of the

spike protein left over floating

396

: 00:22:55

around in the brain or the lungs.

397

: 00:22:57

Another theory is that there are

micro clots throughout the tissues.

398

: 00:23:02

I think that.

399

: 00:23:04

Is less likely.

400

: 00:23:06

But the most prominent theories

and the strongest theories are

401

: 00:23:09

number one, that there's persistent

inflammation in the tissues.

402

: 00:23:12

In fact, I've had three of my own

psychiatry patients who went to the

403

: 00:23:17

local pulmonary hospital and had lung

biopsies 'cause of their shortness

404

: 00:23:22

of breath and chest pain, and they

were told, oh, we found inflammation.

405

: 00:23:26

We don't know what it is, and we

don't know what to do about it.

406

: 00:23:29

That's how big inflammation

is a part of this.

407

: 00:23:31

So inflammation in the brain as well.

408

: 00:23:34

The second prominent theory

is that long COVID, because of

409

: 00:23:38

the cytokine storm, induces a

reactivation of latent infections

410

: 00:23:43

such as Epstein-Barr or Herpes six.

411

: 00:23:46

Now not everybody has,

or herpes six despite.

412

: 00:23:50

Medicines claim that's the case.

413

: 00:23:52

It's really in my hands.

414

: 00:23:54

It's about 60% of patients that I

have tested have Epstein-Barr and

415

: 00:23:59

about 55 to 58% have herpes six.

416

: 00:24:04

The third theory is there's reactivation

of latent bacterial infections

417

: 00:24:08

such as Lyme disease, Bartonella.

418

: 00:24:12

In treating these patients, number

one, I always go looking for the

419

: 00:24:15

Epstein-Barr evidence and if that's

there, I'm treating them with antivirals.

420

: 00:24:19

But, we're typically treating

the patients with infrared light

421

: 00:24:23

and around about treatment 10

their fatigue begins to improve.

422

: 00:24:28

And around about 1415, their cognitive

function is back to baseline.

423

: 00:24:33

I'll give you just one example.

424

: 00:24:35

So a dentist came up from Florida.

425

: 00:24:38

And he had been sidelined by the

fatigue and the brain fog, and he

426

: 00:24:42

had developed a tremor, not good

for a dentist to have a tremor.

427

: 00:24:48

And he had tried everything.

428

: 00:24:49

He had tried hyperbarics, he

had tried various infusions.

429

: 00:24:54

He had tried ozone therapy.

430

: 00:24:57

So he came to us pretty desperate

and having spent a ton of money on

431

: 00:25:01

all these other failed therapies.

432

: 00:25:04

He had 20 treatments,

roundabout treatment.

433

: 00:25:07

14.

434

: 00:25:08

He pulls me aside and

says, doc, this is weird.

435

: 00:25:11

I've taken Vyvanse a

stimulant my whole life.

436

: 00:25:14

'cause I have a DHD and

now it makes me jittery.

437

: 00:25:18

So I stopped taking it.

438

: 00:25:19

And Doc, I can concentrate just.

439

: 00:25:23

And so he, not only did his fatigue

go away, his mental clarity came back.

440

: 00:25:28

His energy, was through the roof.

441

: 00:25:31

He was doing fantastic.

442

: 00:25:32

His tremor gone and he

no longer had a DHD.

443

: 00:25:38

So he stopped taking his Vyvanse.

444

: 00:25:40

He stopped needing to take Xanax at

night 'cause he was so much less anxious

445

: 00:25:44

and he went back and he is working it's

now two and a half, three years out.

446

: 00:25:49

I communicate with him every six months.

447

: 00:25:51

He continues to do fantastic

and he doesn't need a stimulant.

448

: 00:25:56

Yeah, that's fantastic.

449

: 00:25:57

That must be so rewarding to be able to

help folks like that, who've just had

450

: 00:26:00

so much frustration with other options.

451

: 00:26:03

That is one of my core values, is

I wanna bring hope to patients.

452

: 00:26:09

They're told all the time, oh,

there's nothing you can do about it.

453

: 00:26:12

And that frustrates me.

454

: 00:26:15

Yeah I think I'm wondering, just

in terms of what any clinicians who

455

: 00:26:18

are listening might be able to start

doing in their daily practice to

456

: 00:26:23

start thinking more about this and

incorporating some of these ideas.

457

: 00:26:26

Are there some basic blood tests?

458

: 00:26:29

I guess it's difficult to say

specifically, but in general, are

459

: 00:26:32

there, is there a basic approach to

the workup for becoming more suspicious

460

: 00:26:36

about a neuroinflammatory kind of

contribution to mental illness?

461

: 00:26:41

Yeah, there is.

462

: 00:26:42

There is and I'm happy to share it.

463

: 00:26:44

And in fact, if there's a clinician

out there who wants help with,

464

: 00:26:47

getting started doing this treatment,

'cause I don't own this is.

465

: 00:26:51

Dr.

466

: 00:26:51

Lerner's work.

467

: 00:26:53

I'm just championing it.

468

: 00:26:54

So I'm happy to be a consultant

for people who need that.

469

: 00:26:58

So basically, I look at antibody

titers for the herpes viruses.

470

: 00:27:02

So I, I check herpes one two

just because I like that metric.

471

: 00:27:06

And herpes one is

important in Alzheimer's.

472

: 00:27:09

Herpes three is varicella, and

that's, again, it's a good kind of.

473

: 00:27:13

Landmark 'cause most people

have had varicella and therefore

474

: 00:27:17

they'll have antibodies.

475

: 00:27:19

And what you'll find is their

antibody levels are really low.

476

: 00:27:21

If they've.

477

: 00:27:22

If they have active Epstein-Barr virus,

their antibody levels will be very high.

478

: 00:27:26

So for Epstein-Barr, there's a viral coat

antigen and there's a nuclear antigen.

479

: 00:27:32

And then there's also what's called

the early antigen, and that's the

480

: 00:27:35

piece of the protein coat that goes

in and takes over the DNA machinery.

481

: 00:27:39

So it's important to look at that.

482

: 00:27:41

I check herpes five 'cause it's, I

see that as a very small fragment

483

: 00:27:46

of my chronic fatigue patients.

484

: 00:27:47

So cytomegalovirus.

485

: 00:27:49

And then herpes six.

486

: 00:27:51

The rest they get more expensive

'cause they're uncommon.

487

: 00:27:54

So seven and eight are genetic variants

of herpes six and 9, 10, 11, 12

488

: 00:27:59

are only known from brain biopsies.

489

: 00:28:02

So I often offer my patients,

Hey, I'm happy to go get my drill.

490

: 00:28:05

They generally turn me down as rest of

the rest of the lab workup a, C, B, C.

491

: 00:28:11

So then, and then you do a

lymphocyte subset pro profile.

492

: 00:28:15

That allows you to look at

the natural killer cells and

493

: 00:28:18

CD four and CD eight cells.

494

: 00:28:20

If they can afford it a cytokine

panel but generally they cannot.

495

: 00:28:25

So then just do a TGF beta.

496

: 00:28:27

It's much less expensive and it's

the best marker right now for

497

: 00:28:31

lung, for chronic fatigue syndrome

and pretty good for long COVID.

498

: 00:28:36

I also do a C-reactive protein.

499

: 00:28:38

And then I check a creatinine and a liver

function because I'm gonna be putting them

500

: 00:28:44

on a antiviral, which rarely, and let me

emphasize, rarely, like twice in my career

501

: 00:28:51

has anybody had any kinda liver problems

from the antivirals that I'm using.

502

: 00:28:57

Yeah.

503

: 00:28:57

No, that's fantastic.

504

: 00:28:58

Really appreciate that.

505

: 00:28:59

Yeah.

506

: 00:29:00

Just for viewers and listeners,

I'm gonna put links to Dr.

507

: 00:29:03

Henderson's content and contact

information in his clinic and the

508

: 00:29:07

book as well in the show notes.

509

: 00:29:09

So I'd really encourage

people to check that out.

510

: 00:29:11

Maybe just since we but I

referred to your book right there.

511

: 00:29:14

Maybe you can tell us a little bit

about that and the story behind

512

: 00:29:16

the book and what you're hoping

to accomplish by writing that.

513

: 00:29:19

And the book evolved as I wrote it.

514

: 00:29:21

You rewrite books like five or six times.

515

: 00:29:24

And what it came to be was my attempt

to help people rethink depression.

516

: 00:29:33

And so I use Ketamine as a model,

but it's not just about ketamine.

517

: 00:29:38

But I think the way that

Ketamine is administered at

518

: 00:29:41

least in the US is BA wards.

519

: 00:29:44

The standard protocol is six

infusions in two weeks, and

520

: 00:29:48

where that protocol came from.

521

: 00:29:51

So it, it basically came from the

early studies and I actually asked

522

: 00:29:55

one of the investigators in one of

the early studies why they did six

523

: 00:29:58

infusions in two weeks, and his response

was quite literally, I don't know,

524

: 00:30:03

it sounded good that's the science.

525

: 00:30:07

So there is no justification for it.

526

: 00:30:09

In fact, there's a counter.

527

: 00:30:11

Justification for doing six infusions in

two weeks, and that is neuroplasticity.

528

: 00:30:17

You're not gonna make neuroplasticity

happen any faster by having somebody

529

: 00:30:21

get an infusion every other day.

530

: 00:30:24

In fact, in my clinic, I never do

infusions more than once a week, and now

531

: 00:30:29

most of the time it's every two weeks.

532

: 00:30:31

And so by giving neuroplasticity

time to work, my patients get

533

: 00:30:35

better with four infusions.

534

: 00:30:39

So it's, and my response rate

is a 78% response rate, and

535

: 00:30:44

the national average is 51 52.

536

: 00:30:47

So by giving time people spend

less money, get less ketamine

537

: 00:30:54

and have a better outcome.

538

: 00:30:56

I kept telling that story and I kept

telling horror stories of how other

539

: 00:31:01

ketamine clinics had given people giant

doses and then left them in the hallway.

540

: 00:31:07

And I said, I need to just

write the book because I keep

541

: 00:31:10

saying the same thing to people.

542

: 00:31:12

And so that was where the book originally

came from, is I kept finding myself

543

: 00:31:16

explaining the same thing over and over.

544

: 00:31:19

But I think the book, most

importantly, the book gives hope.

545

: 00:31:23

There's lots of stories of patients

and even patients who failed

546

: 00:31:27

to get better with ketamine.

547

: 00:31:29

And that's what leads me to help

people understand there's more to

548

: 00:31:34

depression than just chemical imbalance.

549

: 00:31:38

Yeah.

550

: 00:31:38

Fantastic.

551

: 00:31:39

Yeah, I really appreciate that.

552

: 00:31:40

I appreciate the message of hope

because it is we've been saying a few

553

: 00:31:44

times today already that historically

there's just such a frustration, I

554

: 00:31:48

think, with clinicians and patients.

555

: 00:31:49

And patients are often left

feeling hopeless because after

556

: 00:31:52

years, maybe even decades of.

557

: 00:31:55

Or partially effective treatments,

they still have suffering, they

558

: 00:31:58

still have functional impairments.

559

: 00:31:59

So hopefully with all these other

kinds of options and people can

560

: 00:32:04

continue to just try to maintain hope

that they'll find something, some

561

: 00:32:08

combination of treatments that ends

up working better for yeah, exactly.

562

: 00:32:13

So yeah.

563

: 00:32:14

Based on that and your experience

with all these innovative

564

: 00:32:16

therapies, what would you say is.

565

: 00:32:19

Perhaps the one of the biggest or

a couple of the biggest potential

566

: 00:32:22

opportunities for improvements and

positive changes in mental health

567

: 00:32:26

care over the next five to 10 years.

568

: 00:32:29

Certainly one is the adoption

of infrared photobiomodulation,

569

: 00:32:34

particularly if they're using a multi

watt protocol such as what we do.

570

: 00:32:38

I think that will, would revolutionize

brain health across the spectrum.

571

: 00:32:43

One of the things we haven't talked

about is certain waveless lakes of

572

: 00:32:46

infrared light actually speed the

clearance of toxins from the brain.

573

: 00:32:52

So you want less amyloid in your brain.

574

: 00:32:55

You'll want less alcohol

induced toxins in your brain.

575

: 00:32:59

You want less age related

toxins in your brain.

576

: 00:33:03

Infrared light.

577

: 00:33:05

The other is this

revolution that's happening.

578

: 00:33:08

The next generation of transcranial

magnetic stimulation devices

579

: 00:33:12

have emerged and these devices

have much more powerful magnets.

580

: 00:33:17

They're close to, literally an MRI.

581

: 00:33:20

In terms of their magnetic field.

582

: 00:33:22

And it, number one, speeds the treatment.

583

: 00:33:25

So treatment is reduced from 40

hour long treatments every day of

584

: 00:33:29

the week down to six treatments

lasting 20 some odd minutes.

585

: 00:33:35

So that revolution and TMS interestingly,

TMS turns on neuroplasticity.

586

: 00:33:41

And activates BDNF by

yet a third mechanism.

587

: 00:33:45

So what we're exploring now in

the clinic, and I'm super excited

588

: 00:33:48

about, is the synergy that could

occur between infrared light and

589

: 00:33:53

transcranial magnetic stimulation

in particular areas of the brain.

590

: 00:33:59

Yeah, know.

591

: 00:34:00

That's amazing.

592

: 00:34:00

So it's really interesting to think

about you can all these synergistic start

593

: 00:34:06

to add up, exactly as you're saying.

594

: 00:34:07

You combine that perhaps even with

ketamine and then just even the positive

595

: 00:34:11

therapeutic relationship and that's it's

in some ways, it's really not surprising

596

: 00:34:16

that you're getting such excellent

results, so congratulations for that.

597

: 00:34:19

Thank you.

598

: 00:34:20

Thank you.

599

: 00:34:21

Yeah.

600

: 00:34:22

That's great.

601

: 00:34:22

So I guess I'm curious, 'cause you have

mentioned some of your research endeavors

602

: 00:34:26

what would be, some future ideas or

some hopes plans for collaboration or

603

: 00:34:32

research projects over the next few years?

604

: 00:34:35

Great question.

605

: 00:34:36

Very timely too.

606

: 00:34:38

I've had a long relationship with

Harvard and we're a group of scientists.

607

: 00:34:43

There are under Paula Cassano

and I are working on a grant.

608

: 00:34:46

And this is looking at comparing

the low power infrared light, the

609

: 00:34:52

LEDs that you can buy and stick

on your head at home versus the

610

: 00:34:55

multi watt protocol with controls.

611

: 00:34:59

And the grant that we're preparing

to submit is going to the va.

612

: 00:35:03

So it'd be looking at traumatic

brain injury in veterans.

613

: 00:35:06

And, the veteran population

is so important and un

614

: 00:35:10

underappreciated, at least in the us.

615

: 00:35:13

And every day, the same number

of veterans could die by suicide.

616

: 00:35:18

In 2025, as was true in 2017 no

progress has been made for them.

617

: 00:35:24

And so when I look at, the power

of ketamine, the power of multi

618

: 00:35:29

wat infrared light, and the

power of these next generation

619

: 00:35:33

transcranial magnetic stimulation

devices such as the Exide to help.

620

: 00:35:38

It's just mind boggling to me why we're

not treating veterans aggressively

621

: 00:35:43

with these type of modalities rather

than pills and, group therapy.

622

: 00:35:48

Yeah.

623

: 00:35:48

Particularly the traumatic brain

injury or the PTSD kinds of issues

624

: 00:35:51

that are so common in veterans.

625

: 00:35:53

Yeah.

626

: 00:35:54

Yeah, exactly.

627

: 00:35:55

Yeah.

628

: 00:35:56

For sure.

629

: 00:35:57

I really appreciate it.

630

: 00:35:58

Before we wrap up, is there anything

else that you wanted to bring up Dr.

631

: 00:36:03

Anderson?

632

: 00:36:04

The only thing I would say is that, this.

633

: 00:36:06

I've got one clinic in Denver.

634

: 00:36:09

This should be all over the country.

635

: 00:36:11

So if any listeners out there

are interested in investing

636

: 00:36:15

in, the next generation in

healthcare give me a ring and.

637

: 00:36:20

I'm happy to talk about it.

638

: 00:36:22

A research study such as looking

at PTSD or looking at Parkinson's

639

: 00:36:27

or looking at Alzheimer's,

costs about three, $4 million.

640

: 00:36:31

And the grants are difficult

to get because, we're not.

641

: 00:36:35

University.

642

: 00:36:37

And moving forward moving the field

forward is a slow, laborious process.

643

: 00:36:42

The PO potential for helping

people across North America.

644

: 00:36:46

I'd be happy to have a clinic

in Canada and we've explored

645

: 00:36:49

that with my colleagues.

646

: 00:36:51

It will also take capital.

647

: 00:36:55

Yep.

648

: 00:36:55

Definitely.

649

: 00:36:56

Kudos for all your efforts, and

again, I'm just it's so exciting

650

: 00:36:59

and heartwarming to hear about

all the folks that you're helping.

651

: 00:37:02

So thanks again for a great discussion.

652

: 00:37:05

Absolutely.

653

: 00:37:05

And yeah, I just wish you all the

best and maybe we can have a coffee

654

: 00:37:09

sometime in an upcoming conference.

655

: 00:37:11

That'd be great.

656

: 00:37:11

Excellent.

657

: 00:37:13

Okay.

658

: 00:37:13

That's great.

659

: 00:37:14

So that was our conversation with Dr.

660

: 00:37:15

Theodore Henderson, who's pushing

the boundaries of what's possible

661

: 00:37:18

in psychiatry and mental healthcare

with evidence and empathy.

662

: 00:37:23

If you are curious about treatment

options like infrared laser if you're

663

: 00:37:27

curious about how neuroinflammation is

implicated in various disorders like

664

: 00:37:32

depression, chronic fatigue, long COVID.

665

: 00:37:35

Or if you're curious about how the future

of mental health treatment may well

666

: 00:37:39

involve light instead of just pills.

667

: 00:37:42

His work is really essential

reading, and I'd encourage all of

668

: 00:37:46

the original listeners to check

out his book Brighter Days Ahead.

669

: 00:37:49

Again, I'm gonna put links

to where you can find Dr.

670

: 00:37:52

Henderson's content in the show notes.

671

: 00:37:54

Once again, Dr.

672

: 00:37:55

Henderson, thanks so much for joining

us and just wish you all the best.

673

: 00:37:59

Thank you so much for having me.

674

: 00:38:00

My pleasure.

675

: 00:38:02

Okay, have a great day.

676

: 00:38:03

See you later.

677

: 00:38:03

Thank you.

678

: 00:38:04

Bye-bye.